What are you referring to? With all the book reviews, drawings, and discussion of my therapist, how could any of that have been a surprise, much less a virtue signal???
Hmmm. You’re probably right. And maybe I feel better about what I do, listing off things that I do because they are part of my life. It’s not virtue signaling , it’s just reference to what we do. And yet I can’t shake the thought that references like that can appear like VS.
References like WHAT?!? What is virtuous about someone who posts drawings saying “I go to the art store” or someone who posts book reviews saying “I know where the library and bookstore are” or someone who’s fucked up saying “I go to therapy” ? You are pissing me off because you’re refusing to be clear. BE CLEAR or I’m booting your ass.
What is virtuous about someone who draws going to the art supply store? What is virtuous about someone who reads going to the library or bookstore? What is virtuous about someone who likes to eat out with a friend going to a restaurant that has menus that appeal to both that person and the friend?
You’re being a complete and utter jackass. If you tried to be clear, then you need a dictionary and lessons in clarity. You get booted now.
I don't understand how referencing things someone does in their personal life while writing on Substack equates to virtue signaling. This is a totally normal article to most people. Are you on a constant witch-hunt for "virtue signalers" and seeing it where it doesn't exist now?
I really just think Lou is looking for it where it doesn't exist, perhaps to feel better about himself for finding a flaw... which could in itself be an actual virtue signal...projection much?
I always hate getting to a stop sign at the exact same moment someone else does - it causes anxiety. I know the rules, but a lot of times you get placed into that situation where one person waves you on when it's his turn to go. Because of this, I usually slow down to let the other person stop before me so there is no question of who got there first. But that shouldn't be so. I have been doing that for decades. If only we all just followed the rules...
I grew up in Chicago and lived there for many years, then lived in the DC area for close to twenty years. My experience with driving norms, is, uh, not like yours. I’m not a particularly aggressive driver, but I’m definitely on the lookout for erratic driving behavior on the part of my fellow drivers. I notice the same level of super-deferential driving and generally higher level of courtesy, when I visit Maine. I don’t necessarily see it as being virtue signaling. To a large extent it strikes me as a byproduct of higher social trust.
For example, in Maine I once saw a roadside stand with blueberries, some jars of homemade jams, prices, and an open cash box with money inside -- totally unattended. This city boy found it charming, and yes I left the appropriate amount of cash and took some jam and blueberries. When in Maine, I do find myself being a little more courteous, almost by osmosis. Not out of shame, but out of respect for local customs.
And I find myself driving in a somewhat more restrained manner. On the other hand, I can see that being around that level of nice all the time, rather than just when on a vacation trip, would kind of drive me nuts. I don’t like to be cut off in traffic any more than anyone else, but never being cut off would probably get a bit tedious.
FWIW I've been in Chicago for the last 20 years, and I haven't particularly noticed this. I also visit rural Missouri regularly, and not there either.
So it may actually be a regional thing. It would be interesting to know if this happens in Minnesota: I don't recallit from when I lived there in the 90s, but they did firmly believe in Minnesota Nice, which would probably make them vulnerable to this shift in norms.
I already left a comment, but I've been driving in MN most of my life, and I have learned to not stop at a stop sign at the same time as others, because people are like what Holly has described. I was trained by my environment to slow down and let others hit the stop before me, so there is no back and forth on who will go first.
It’s so consistent that I seriously worried people would think I was nuts, as if imagining it — who goes below the speed limit so consistently? Vermonters, that’s who.
I hate the “nice” drivers who don’t go on green because they’re waving pedestrians to cross or letting cars in … I’m always tempted to scream out the window “GREEN MEANS GO!”
It's worse in Canada. They've made the law ambiguous. It used to be at an uncontrolled intersection the driver on the right had the right of way. Now it's the driver on the main road which is often unclear. Especially if I'm in an unfamiliar arena.
This happened more than 30 years ago and in the South. It's stupidity, not virtue signaling, but still.
My oldest son had just turned 15 1/2, the age at which one can get a learner's permit to drive in North Carolina. Fresh with his new permit he asked, "Dad, will you let me drive around before taking me back to school?" I said sure and off we went.
I suggested a farm-to-market road as it was less likely to be heavily traveled during that time of day. He was driving and I noticed a vehicle about 1/2 mile ahead with its right turn signal on going about 45 miles an hour. I said "son, what do you know about that car?" He said, "it's gonna turn right." "Wrong answer," I replied. "Just wait and watch." Sure enough, the car slowed to a crawl and turned . . . LEFT! He shouted "how did you know that was gonna happen?" I replied, "son, this is Robeson County. Traffic laws and for that matter, any rules and regulations, are seen as merely suggestions and are ignored."
He has driven more than two million miles and says that was the best lesson about being aware and driving defensively he's ever had.
Spot on. 45 years ago my driver’s Ed teacher called out this very behavior. The right of way is not a courtesy to be given away generously, it is the law, black and white law.
Second, for the love of God, you gotta get out of that state filled with virtue-signalling koolaid-drinking NPC group think. Save your family.
There's a very small amount of what you describe in very woke Manhattan (NY, not KS), but generally, it's the opposite. The taxis who don't signal or yield, then cut you off like it's a car race. The pedestrians who start crossing the avenue (often either with their strollers or their heads in their phones) when you're trying to turn, but only AFTER they see there's three seconds left to cross. The cyclists who speed past red lights endangering everyone bc they believe they are a very special class who the rules don't apply to.
I could go on, but this is a comment, not an article. Thank you for coming to my TedX.
I wonder if this is just that NYC traffic norms are an entity unto themselves? I’ve seen classic TV shows that show this kind of thing from as far back as the Reagan era.
It is irritating to me when people don’t follow “right of way” laws for the sake of doing what they believe is more socially laudible.
After decades of being exposed to this, I am starting to become infected with the peer pressure.
Also, there is something that you are probably well aware of, but on the chance that you may not be, I will mention it. Sometimes a bus driver or a truck driver will try to get you to move through an intersection if you are in a lane that is entering the intersection to their right in a perpendicular direction, and they are trying to turn right, because it’s hard for a bus to make a right turn at certain intersections, and very often it is impossible for a truck because the lanes are often not wide enough for them to make a turn without crossing over into the lane of oncoming traffic.
Yes, I’m aware of that, but this wasn’t that situation. This was me waiting to turn left into a shopping center where the art supply store is. Absolutely nuts.
You've probably read Noise, by Daniel Kahneman, et al. This post is a good example of that statistical concept. Down here in south Florida, such behavior is usually absent-mindedness, or a belief (usually displayed by pickup truck drivers) that you are telepathic and know what they are thinking.
You make a valid point, but it's not mainly about driving. I think in Vermont, and here in NH, that kind of courtesy it is a reflection of high social trust and consideration (maybe more so in NH than VT).
But there's more to it than that, I think. We have to seek a balance between feminine and masculine virtues (you all know what they are!)
When the feminization of our society leads to everyone seeking "safe spaces" we are done. Period. And yes, I use that term advisedly!
I see your problem coming from two places: where you’re driving, and when you’re driving.
Here in south Texas, the issue, which is growing, is not too much courtesy but too much aggression, particularly left turn red light running. It’s best to spell Mississippi, then proceed.
And time of day makes a big difference. Obviously morning and evening drive times require lots of diligence. It’s the in-between hours when the “careful” drivers are out that can drive you nuts, if you let them.
I wondered about this — the timing — and tested it. Because I’m on salary and nobody gives a damn when I work as long as the work gets done on time, I tried going to the art supply store late morning and early afternoon, instead of morning or evening rush hour. No difference at all.
You are right Holly. My favorite is when someone stops in front of me to let another car turn. They don’t even think about the fifteen cars behind them that had to come to a complete stop.
Being a senior citizen in a megalopolis, I have the opposite problem. Virtually every driver on the road is speeding as if their life depended on it. Red lights are merely suggestions, and if you hesitate to enter the intersection within a millisecond of the light going green, the cars behind you will lean on their horns. On multi-lane roads you need to get in the lane you're going to turn from at least a mile in advance, as no one will let you in, signal or not. That said, no you are not crazy. At least 50% of the population is bat guano nuts. Virtue signaling is the norm, because of the paranoia caused by the threat of cancellation. This insanity is constantly reinforced by social media, as well as news media. Vast numbers of the citizens of our country have lost the plot. I feel like we're being held together by threads.
What are you referring to? With all the book reviews, drawings, and discussion of my therapist, how could any of that have been a surprise, much less a virtue signal???
Hmmm. You’re probably right. And maybe I feel better about what I do, listing off things that I do because they are part of my life. It’s not virtue signaling , it’s just reference to what we do. And yet I can’t shake the thought that references like that can appear like VS.
References like WHAT?!? What is virtuous about someone who posts drawings saying “I go to the art store” or someone who posts book reviews saying “I know where the library and bookstore are” or someone who’s fucked up saying “I go to therapy” ? You are pissing me off because you’re refusing to be clear. BE CLEAR or I’m booting your ass.
What is virtuous about someone who draws going to the art supply store? What is virtuous about someone who reads going to the library or bookstore? What is virtuous about someone who likes to eat out with a friend going to a restaurant that has menus that appeal to both that person and the friend?
You’re being a complete and utter jackass. If you tried to be clear, then you need a dictionary and lessons in clarity. You get booted now.
I don't understand how referencing things someone does in their personal life while writing on Substack equates to virtue signaling. This is a totally normal article to most people. Are you on a constant witch-hunt for "virtue signalers" and seeing it where it doesn't exist now?
I’m out of Coke Zero and mustard. So I’m going to the grocery store later. See my virtue!!!!!!
I really just think Lou is looking for it where it doesn't exist, perhaps to feel better about himself for finding a flaw... which could in itself be an actual virtue signal...projection much?
Thank you for this; I thought it was just me that the “polite” people make crazy.
Thank you for saying this!!!!
Related: People who hold the door open for you when you’re 30 feet away. Why are you making me jog so you can be polite?
I always hate getting to a stop sign at the exact same moment someone else does - it causes anxiety. I know the rules, but a lot of times you get placed into that situation where one person waves you on when it's his turn to go. Because of this, I usually slow down to let the other person stop before me so there is no question of who got there first. But that shouldn't be so. I have been doing that for decades. If only we all just followed the rules...
YES! Other people being reliable enough to follow the rules is a genuine need.
I grew up in Chicago and lived there for many years, then lived in the DC area for close to twenty years. My experience with driving norms, is, uh, not like yours. I’m not a particularly aggressive driver, but I’m definitely on the lookout for erratic driving behavior on the part of my fellow drivers. I notice the same level of super-deferential driving and generally higher level of courtesy, when I visit Maine. I don’t necessarily see it as being virtue signaling. To a large extent it strikes me as a byproduct of higher social trust.
For example, in Maine I once saw a roadside stand with blueberries, some jars of homemade jams, prices, and an open cash box with money inside -- totally unattended. This city boy found it charming, and yes I left the appropriate amount of cash and took some jam and blueberries. When in Maine, I do find myself being a little more courteous, almost by osmosis. Not out of shame, but out of respect for local customs.
And I find myself driving in a somewhat more restrained manner. On the other hand, I can see that being around that level of nice all the time, rather than just when on a vacation trip, would kind of drive me nuts. I don’t like to be cut off in traffic any more than anyone else, but never being cut off would probably get a bit tedious.
FWIW I've been in Chicago for the last 20 years, and I haven't particularly noticed this. I also visit rural Missouri regularly, and not there either.
So it may actually be a regional thing. It would be interesting to know if this happens in Minnesota: I don't recallit from when I lived there in the 90s, but they did firmly believe in Minnesota Nice, which would probably make them vulnerable to this shift in norms.
I already left a comment, but I've been driving in MN most of my life, and I have learned to not stop at a stop sign at the same time as others, because people are like what Holly has described. I was trained by my environment to slow down and let others hit the stop before me, so there is no back and forth on who will go first.
You're absolutely not crazy to hate this at all. It is VERY annoying.
It’s so consistent that I seriously worried people would think I was nuts, as if imagining it — who goes below the speed limit so consistently? Vermonters, that’s who.
This post is spot on Holly.
I hate the “nice” drivers who don’t go on green because they’re waving pedestrians to cross or letting cars in … I’m always tempted to scream out the window “GREEN MEANS GO!”
OMG yes, thank you!!!!
Yep, ends up sticking people behind them at a light unnecessarily sometimes as well.
It's worse in Canada. They've made the law ambiguous. It used to be at an uncontrolled intersection the driver on the right had the right of way. Now it's the driver on the main road which is often unclear. Especially if I'm in an unfamiliar arena.
Oh God, why am I not surprised?
In Europe they solve this with “priority signs,” usually a yellow diamond on a white background, indicating that a road is the main one.
https://www.reddit.com/r/geoguessr/s/IUR43Gp5lk
So then it becomes a controlled intersection. When not use a yield sign? Or better yet just have a consistent rule.
This happened more than 30 years ago and in the South. It's stupidity, not virtue signaling, but still.
My oldest son had just turned 15 1/2, the age at which one can get a learner's permit to drive in North Carolina. Fresh with his new permit he asked, "Dad, will you let me drive around before taking me back to school?" I said sure and off we went.
I suggested a farm-to-market road as it was less likely to be heavily traveled during that time of day. He was driving and I noticed a vehicle about 1/2 mile ahead with its right turn signal on going about 45 miles an hour. I said "son, what do you know about that car?" He said, "it's gonna turn right." "Wrong answer," I replied. "Just wait and watch." Sure enough, the car slowed to a crawl and turned . . . LEFT! He shouted "how did you know that was gonna happen?" I replied, "son, this is Robeson County. Traffic laws and for that matter, any rules and regulations, are seen as merely suggestions and are ignored."
He has driven more than two million miles and says that was the best lesson about being aware and driving defensively he's ever had.
Spot on. 45 years ago my driver’s Ed teacher called out this very behavior. The right of way is not a courtesy to be given away generously, it is the law, black and white law.
Second, for the love of God, you gotta get out of that state filled with virtue-signalling koolaid-drinking NPC group think. Save your family.
There's a very small amount of what you describe in very woke Manhattan (NY, not KS), but generally, it's the opposite. The taxis who don't signal or yield, then cut you off like it's a car race. The pedestrians who start crossing the avenue (often either with their strollers or their heads in their phones) when you're trying to turn, but only AFTER they see there's three seconds left to cross. The cyclists who speed past red lights endangering everyone bc they believe they are a very special class who the rules don't apply to.
I could go on, but this is a comment, not an article. Thank you for coming to my TedX.
I wonder if this is just that NYC traffic norms are an entity unto themselves? I’ve seen classic TV shows that show this kind of thing from as far back as the Reagan era.
Right of way is unofficially determined by whomever's bumper is in front.
I think a lot like you on this issue.
It is irritating to me when people don’t follow “right of way” laws for the sake of doing what they believe is more socially laudible.
After decades of being exposed to this, I am starting to become infected with the peer pressure.
Also, there is something that you are probably well aware of, but on the chance that you may not be, I will mention it. Sometimes a bus driver or a truck driver will try to get you to move through an intersection if you are in a lane that is entering the intersection to their right in a perpendicular direction, and they are trying to turn right, because it’s hard for a bus to make a right turn at certain intersections, and very often it is impossible for a truck because the lanes are often not wide enough for them to make a turn without crossing over into the lane of oncoming traffic.
Yes, I’m aware of that, but this wasn’t that situation. This was me waiting to turn left into a shopping center where the art supply store is. Absolutely nuts.
You've probably read Noise, by Daniel Kahneman, et al. This post is a good example of that statistical concept. Down here in south Florida, such behavior is usually absent-mindedness, or a belief (usually displayed by pickup truck drivers) that you are telepathic and know what they are thinking.
You make a valid point, but it's not mainly about driving. I think in Vermont, and here in NH, that kind of courtesy it is a reflection of high social trust and consideration (maybe more so in NH than VT).
But there's more to it than that, I think. We have to seek a balance between feminine and masculine virtues (you all know what they are!)
When the feminization of our society leads to everyone seeking "safe spaces" we are done. Period. And yes, I use that term advisedly!
I see your problem coming from two places: where you’re driving, and when you’re driving.
Here in south Texas, the issue, which is growing, is not too much courtesy but too much aggression, particularly left turn red light running. It’s best to spell Mississippi, then proceed.
And time of day makes a big difference. Obviously morning and evening drive times require lots of diligence. It’s the in-between hours when the “careful” drivers are out that can drive you nuts, if you let them.
In sum, pick your poison.
I wondered about this — the timing — and tested it. Because I’m on salary and nobody gives a damn when I work as long as the work gets done on time, I tried going to the art supply store late morning and early afternoon, instead of morning or evening rush hour. No difference at all.
Well, as is said in real estate: "Location, location, location."
You appear to be dealing with a local, or possibly regional phenomenon.
I’m in a small town in the foothills of Los Angeles and it’s exactly the same here.
You are right Holly. My favorite is when someone stops in front of me to let another car turn. They don’t even think about the fifteen cars behind them that had to come to a complete stop.
Being a senior citizen in a megalopolis, I have the opposite problem. Virtually every driver on the road is speeding as if their life depended on it. Red lights are merely suggestions, and if you hesitate to enter the intersection within a millisecond of the light going green, the cars behind you will lean on their horns. On multi-lane roads you need to get in the lane you're going to turn from at least a mile in advance, as no one will let you in, signal or not. That said, no you are not crazy. At least 50% of the population is bat guano nuts. Virtue signaling is the norm, because of the paranoia caused by the threat of cancellation. This insanity is constantly reinforced by social media, as well as news media. Vast numbers of the citizens of our country have lost the plot. I feel like we're being held together by threads.