Thanks. No book. I tried to get hired at an online mathematics curriculum company and they ghosted me. I'm too pathetic to be worthy of even an answer to my polite email asking how I could improve. 🤣 I'm just going to keep posting here. It makes me less depressed.
When you have posted them all here (or enough to be worthwhile) go talk to the home-schooling community and look at self pubbing on Amazon. I'm pretty sure home-schoolers will like this kind of mathematics instruction and will buy books of it.
[ If you don't have other contacts I can probably help with both.]
> But if your kids knows that 60 - 4 is 56 because they made the connection that 6 + 4 is 10 and 10 - 4 is 6 and that these cycles repeat over and over,
Notice that this is actually algebraic reasoning, even if it's not a formal algebra problem. I wonder if that also helps kids learn explicit algebra (on top of the effect that you are talking about here).
Question for you... my rising 4th grade daughter is resisting learning her times tables (0 - 12). How important is it for her to memorize these? Any thoughts on how to make this more interesting for her? Thanks for putting this primer together!
IMO, it's crucial. This is a deal-breaker for future math success. Depending on the present status of it as a "thing," if you can incentivize for it (instead of letting it turn into a major conflict, which she might then associate with math) I would do that. Memorizing all the times tables is a big project. A lot of work. Adults get paid for work in many, but not all circumstances. If some version of this would work, I recommend it: "just like mom and dad get paid for our jobs but don't get paid for cutting our own grass or doing our own laundry, some things in life we get paid for and some things we don't. School is your job, as a kid. This is your first Very Big School Project and so you're going to get paid for it." Then get a thermometer chart (or some other chart that you can mark to indicate progress) and let her color it in as she makes progress. Prime numbers are special and have a special role to play as she gains numeracy, so I would actually have her go through 13 (1x1 through 1x13, 2x1 through 2x13, etc.).
If it's already a power struggle where bribing her through a reward would undermine your authority, then I would try to find some way to make it as low-drama as possible, but still make her do it. Maybe drilling every night at bedtime and when she gets sick of it, tell her, "Then memorize them yourself; as soon as you've got them all this is over."
To make it more interesting: look up the divisibility rules. They offer a way to make sure she has the right answer, and they're a cool piece of number theory. Anything divisible by 3, the sum of the digits adds up to something divisible by 3. For example, 3 x 8 = 24. 2 + 4 = 6. 6 is divisible by 3. And so on, for every number divisible by 3. There are similarly interesting divisibility rules for all the numbers she will be memorizing the times tables for, and that might make it more interesting for her.
Thank you, Holly! It’s good to know that it’s worth pushing her to learn these. We’ve been drilling these on car rides and around the house, but maybe it’s time to add some incentive. It’s really just the higher 6, 7, 8, and 12 multiples that don’t seem to stick. I will look into the divisibility rules as well. Much appreciated.
The idea of multiplication as fast adding might also be helpful. If she likes to shop with you, you could ask her how many eggs are in 6 cartons. 12 + 12 + 12 + 12 + 12 + 12 is quite a slog, whereas 12 x 6 is fast, especially if she has it memorized. :-)
I teach 5th grade. I can't imagine ANYTHING that would help the kids be able to do 5th grade math (double-digit division, working with fractions, etc.) more than having the basic times tables. I don't necessarily have great ideas on the resistance you're getting, but I can say it so helpful to have them memorized.
I went to a community seminar back in November 2022 about the math curriculum in the school system.
The curriculum is based, in part, on Nanci Smith's "Every Math Learner". It might be related to "Corwin Mathematics".
It seemed a bit "modern". I'm not sure if I hate it because it's not "how I learned" or if I'm right that it over complicates things.
I do know that any trouble my son (youngest, 13) had this year was based on the meandering questions that were more about parsing the language of the question than actual math. We've had a protracted battle with the school because of his dyslexia, so I'm somewhat sensitive to this issue.
Common Core's integration of writing with mathematics makes me downright homicidal. I can think of nothing worse to do to kids who struggle in language, whether from dyslexia or just because boys tend to lag behind girls in language development.
The daft you have at three in the morning. It is a power thing - to the nth degree! For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. We wrestle with the School Principal; a Power of Darkness in The Kingdom of the Wicked. ;-)
The single thing I was most frustrated with in my kids elementary school was the refusal to not drill memorize multiplication tables there. I’ve got him mainly caught up now but not having that firmly implanted caused problems for years.
I’m 52 and I remember reciting multiplication tables as a class in 4th grade. The guess it’s not seen as a way to “educate the whole child” nowadays but it sure worked on me!
I teach 5th grade, and the problems with math curriculum, instruction (and really all curriculum areas) is just so real. I have a very rare background for an elementary teacher--a degree in creative writing, another in physics(astrophysics was my emphasis), an author, a composer, etc. And yet, even though I help my students make big leaps every year, nobody listens when I try to explain WHY and HOW the kids suddenly improved so much. I'm constantly banging against a wall, it feels like.
There are a few trends I've had to deal with that are most abominable: the ten-year crusade in my district to eliminate the memorization of times tables. (And the related trend to stop "wasting time" teaching spelling and grammar. Ugh.)
The bombardment with multiple methods of doing a problem. For kids who are struggling with mathematics, it doesn't help them. It confuses them. The best analogy I can think of is taking a beginning pianist, quickly demonstrate Twinkle Twinkle in 12 different keys (1 time each) and then sit back and saying: "There! Now you play the song--choose whatever key was your favorite." Shockingly, this doesn't help the beginner learn to play anything.
The trend to have days and days of lessons on the ideas and concepts behind a math operation (in 5th grade, I was supposed to do a lot of this with multiplication and division) and then just spend one quick lesson on the standard algorithm to end the unit. "There!" I'm supposed to say. "Now they can multiply!!!!!" No they can't.
And then, as you say, they just say: "I'm not a math person" and go on their lives in tragic ignorance.
Haven't read through all this yet, but wondering how many tines you've swwn or heard "New Math" by Tom Lehrer.
I love this. Where can I get your lessons? Are you selling instruction? Are you selling a book?
Thanks. No book. I tried to get hired at an online mathematics curriculum company and they ghosted me. I'm too pathetic to be worthy of even an answer to my polite email asking how I could improve. 🤣 I'm just going to keep posting here. It makes me less depressed.
When you have posted them all here (or enough to be worthwhile) go talk to the home-schooling community and look at self pubbing on Amazon. I'm pretty sure home-schoolers will like this kind of mathematics instruction and will buy books of it.
[ If you don't have other contacts I can probably help with both.]
> But if your kids knows that 60 - 4 is 56 because they made the connection that 6 + 4 is 10 and 10 - 4 is 6 and that these cycles repeat over and over,
Notice that this is actually algebraic reasoning, even if it's not a formal algebra problem. I wonder if that also helps kids learn explicit algebra (on top of the effect that you are talking about here).
Question for you... my rising 4th grade daughter is resisting learning her times tables (0 - 12). How important is it for her to memorize these? Any thoughts on how to make this more interesting for her? Thanks for putting this primer together!
IMO, it's crucial. This is a deal-breaker for future math success. Depending on the present status of it as a "thing," if you can incentivize for it (instead of letting it turn into a major conflict, which she might then associate with math) I would do that. Memorizing all the times tables is a big project. A lot of work. Adults get paid for work in many, but not all circumstances. If some version of this would work, I recommend it: "just like mom and dad get paid for our jobs but don't get paid for cutting our own grass or doing our own laundry, some things in life we get paid for and some things we don't. School is your job, as a kid. This is your first Very Big School Project and so you're going to get paid for it." Then get a thermometer chart (or some other chart that you can mark to indicate progress) and let her color it in as she makes progress. Prime numbers are special and have a special role to play as she gains numeracy, so I would actually have her go through 13 (1x1 through 1x13, 2x1 through 2x13, etc.).
If it's already a power struggle where bribing her through a reward would undermine your authority, then I would try to find some way to make it as low-drama as possible, but still make her do it. Maybe drilling every night at bedtime and when she gets sick of it, tell her, "Then memorize them yourself; as soon as you've got them all this is over."
To make it more interesting: look up the divisibility rules. They offer a way to make sure she has the right answer, and they're a cool piece of number theory. Anything divisible by 3, the sum of the digits adds up to something divisible by 3. For example, 3 x 8 = 24. 2 + 4 = 6. 6 is divisible by 3. And so on, for every number divisible by 3. There are similarly interesting divisibility rules for all the numbers she will be memorizing the times tables for, and that might make it more interesting for her.
Thank you, Holly! It’s good to know that it’s worth pushing her to learn these. We’ve been drilling these on car rides and around the house, but maybe it’s time to add some incentive. It’s really just the higher 6, 7, 8, and 12 multiples that don’t seem to stick. I will look into the divisibility rules as well. Much appreciated.
The idea of multiplication as fast adding might also be helpful. If she likes to shop with you, you could ask her how many eggs are in 6 cartons. 12 + 12 + 12 + 12 + 12 + 12 is quite a slog, whereas 12 x 6 is fast, especially if she has it memorized. :-)
Good thought. I’ll try that with her. Thank you again!
Its the Hols; you go do Dad things while I get on with childhood, 'kay? :-) Jeeze. ^.^
I teach 5th grade. I can't imagine ANYTHING that would help the kids be able to do 5th grade math (double-digit division, working with fractions, etc.) more than having the basic times tables. I don't necessarily have great ideas on the resistance you're getting, but I can say it so helpful to have them memorized.
I went to a community seminar back in November 2022 about the math curriculum in the school system.
The curriculum is based, in part, on Nanci Smith's "Every Math Learner". It might be related to "Corwin Mathematics".
It seemed a bit "modern". I'm not sure if I hate it because it's not "how I learned" or if I'm right that it over complicates things.
I do know that any trouble my son (youngest, 13) had this year was based on the meandering questions that were more about parsing the language of the question than actual math. We've had a protracted battle with the school because of his dyslexia, so I'm somewhat sensitive to this issue.
Common Core's integration of writing with mathematics makes me downright homicidal. I can think of nothing worse to do to kids who struggle in language, whether from dyslexia or just because boys tend to lag behind girls in language development.
That's exactly how I feel. I couldn't put my thoughts into words, because I'm too close to the problem
The "sanity checking" bits for addition and subtraction are really really good!
Excellent!
The daft you have at three in the morning. It is a power thing - to the nth degree! For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places. We wrestle with the School Principal; a Power of Darkness in The Kingdom of the Wicked. ;-)
The single thing I was most frustrated with in my kids elementary school was the refusal to not drill memorize multiplication tables there. I’ve got him mainly caught up now but not having that firmly implanted caused problems for years.
I’m 52 and I remember reciting multiplication tables as a class in 4th grade. The guess it’s not seen as a way to “educate the whole child” nowadays but it sure worked on me!
I got into a fight with 1, 3, 5, 7 and 9.
The odds were against me.
I teach 5th grade, and the problems with math curriculum, instruction (and really all curriculum areas) is just so real. I have a very rare background for an elementary teacher--a degree in creative writing, another in physics(astrophysics was my emphasis), an author, a composer, etc. And yet, even though I help my students make big leaps every year, nobody listens when I try to explain WHY and HOW the kids suddenly improved so much. I'm constantly banging against a wall, it feels like.
There are a few trends I've had to deal with that are most abominable: the ten-year crusade in my district to eliminate the memorization of times tables. (And the related trend to stop "wasting time" teaching spelling and grammar. Ugh.)
The bombardment with multiple methods of doing a problem. For kids who are struggling with mathematics, it doesn't help them. It confuses them. The best analogy I can think of is taking a beginning pianist, quickly demonstrate Twinkle Twinkle in 12 different keys (1 time each) and then sit back and saying: "There! Now you play the song--choose whatever key was your favorite." Shockingly, this doesn't help the beginner learn to play anything.
The trend to have days and days of lessons on the ideas and concepts behind a math operation (in 5th grade, I was supposed to do a lot of this with multiplication and division) and then just spend one quick lesson on the standard algorithm to end the unit. "There!" I'm supposed to say. "Now they can multiply!!!!!" No they can't.
And then, as you say, they just say: "I'm not a math person" and go on their lives in tragic ignorance.