You have no idea how valuable this post is on the subject of college. Sharing this with my son and will buy a couple of the recommended books for him and my d-I-l. My grands are 8 and 11. Not too early to avert possible disaster.
I wanted to be a public school music teacher. I went to a state university for it and graduated in December 2020. This sounds like catastrophizing to me.
I was required to take general education courses, music department courses, education courses, and honors courses (as a condition of a scholarship award).
My total exposure to cynical theories: one class, in which critical responses were welcome.
Actual quote from my longtime neocon parents from when they called me during the Floyd riots:
"Oh hey...you're not brainwashed."
I went to public K-12 and followed that by graduating from a prominent public college in my cobalt-blue state back in 2012. I agree that college is a substantial proponent of the problem for sure - but it doesn't account for the full scope of the problem.
All of my WOKEST old friends (one of which has tried to argue math isn't real - I am not joking) have two things in common:
1) They all left home and spent years submersed in college towns/life (mine was/is largely a commuter college)
2) They spent all their free time in high school (and beyond in some cases) online with other friends & strangers - usually on Tumblr. Tumblr politics are of course simplistic largely by virtue of being heavily watered down half-baked leftist ideas - but their ideological simplicity enables them to be grasped and shared lightning fast with the aid of peers and the associated social pressures.
I think if parents do at least some of the things on the list you've provided that may help - but I don't think any of it will substantially address the second component of all this. One thing parents CAN do to greatly reduce (but sadly not eliminate) hazard two:
Start teaching your kid the importance and value of working as soon as they are old enough to understand it and then encourage (or require - it wasn’t an ‘ if ’ but ‘ when ’ for me) them to start working part time while they’re still in high school. They will literally not have time to get sucked into the endless online stream of nonsense & earning their own money will matter to them.
I agree with you about Tumblr, but there are plenty of schools now where people who came of age on Tumblr are the professors and teaching assistants. I had so many teaching assistants who spouted Tumblr crap, and when I asked them directly, yes, they were Tumblr people.
Having a like-minded person who you could share a laugh with about the woke absurdities could be instrumental in staying sane in college. How does one find such a person, though?
Religious affiliated universities may also be better. I went to one. There was plenty of Regular College Stuff that went on there among the student body, there was plenty of religious and ethical questioning, but being beholden to people whose values aren’t mostly brand new to the past two decades keeps things grounded.
Yeah. Well, the house only goes up in value if you're lucky. Or, you might have the fortune to have purchased two different houses during two *different* housing bubbles, *and* gotten to sell after they'd popped.
I know it's generally good advice, but I'm just bitter. Sorry. :-\
I have worked in higher education for the last 20 years and this is by far THE most useful post for anyone thinking about going to college/ university. I just wish I was still on (academic) Twitter under my old handle so I could RT.
I read this with great eagerness, mostly to validate my own parenting choices. I went into the high school->college->career pipeline, and although I don't regret my life choices, I wanted my kids (now 21, 18, and 13) to be able to make their own choices. My job is not to force them into any particular path; my job is to put data points in front of them, let them decide, and support their decisions.
Once upon a time college was touted as a way out of poverty. The 1970s. You went to college, learned about different topics, lived with a variety of roommates, in dorms, or off campus housing and there was self segregation and under current of “what is next?” In my time we black and white students were pretty much on an even playing field. As The 1970s changed, I started asking hard questions of my college., once I get out of college how do I transfer this knowledge into a decent job? No one could answer that question. I stopped school for a while and worked in a department store. I worked a lot of retail jobs. I went to college to study business and really, it was a total fu*k up. I flunked out, I did not have enough math background to tackle the very basics of business classes. I was exhausted and I was a slow learner. Eventually I started working in banking, retail was replaced by telemarketing inbound and I learned about banking. I went back to college, studied communication and got my BS. BS in communication is a nothing degree so I went for my masters. The web was starting to emerge, interest rates were no longer 18%, I went the print direction, not web. BIG REGRET. I still asked counselors, professors how do I get a job in my field that will pay a living salary? Again crickets, no one had the answer and one professor on the radio swore that I could make 75-80k with the degree. No, just no. It was an illusion a trick, it had no basis in reality. While my degree and portfolio opened some doors so did my persistence. That and luck, really.
After what I went through, mistakes and all, if I were a kid today asking about college I would encourage a trade, a skill, apprenticeship, and learn and understand math. Math is money. I would strongly discourage, I MEAN STRONGLY discourage any college. I never even cracked 40K, while I am creative, everyone is creative to some extent. While some of the things I did actually made a class I was in gasp. (I really hit a couple of projects out of the park, gasps can be a good thing) I worked my entire life to pay for health insurance for me as I grow older. While I have done okay, what I see now for kids with no direction, mentors, help, and good foundation of family and basic knowledge is a strong NO to college.
Learn to cut hair, mend clothing, fix shoes, tailor clothes, figure out plumbing. There is so much out there that surpasses college in meaningful ways. Fixing cars, rehabbing a house, farming (viciously difficult) find small communities. You know the ones that are way out in the boonies, you can make your job, charge appropriately, get a name for yourself, and work independently. It is hard, but given what I have seen the past three years, no matter what you do, you are still on your own.
Great thoughts. I appreciate the reading list. I think a precocious reader could start on some of those materials in middle school. I started talking to my eldest about some of this stuff last year when he was in 2nd grade and some social justice topics came up at their otherwise non-woke school. I encourage people to start the conversation young. Kids can handle simplified versions of these concepts, and it’s possible to convey that it’s important without making it scary or overwhelming.
You have no idea how valuable this post is on the subject of college. Sharing this with my son and will buy a couple of the recommended books for him and my d-I-l. My grands are 8 and 11. Not too early to avert possible disaster.
I wanted to be a public school music teacher. I went to a state university for it and graduated in December 2020. This sounds like catastrophizing to me.
I was required to take general education courses, music department courses, education courses, and honors courses (as a condition of a scholarship award).
My total exposure to cynical theories: one class, in which critical responses were welcome.
This is a Maoist reeducation camp?
Actual quote from my longtime neocon parents from when they called me during the Floyd riots:
"Oh hey...you're not brainwashed."
I went to public K-12 and followed that by graduating from a prominent public college in my cobalt-blue state back in 2012. I agree that college is a substantial proponent of the problem for sure - but it doesn't account for the full scope of the problem.
All of my WOKEST old friends (one of which has tried to argue math isn't real - I am not joking) have two things in common:
1) They all left home and spent years submersed in college towns/life (mine was/is largely a commuter college)
2) They spent all their free time in high school (and beyond in some cases) online with other friends & strangers - usually on Tumblr. Tumblr politics are of course simplistic largely by virtue of being heavily watered down half-baked leftist ideas - but their ideological simplicity enables them to be grasped and shared lightning fast with the aid of peers and the associated social pressures.
I think if parents do at least some of the things on the list you've provided that may help - but I don't think any of it will substantially address the second component of all this. One thing parents CAN do to greatly reduce (but sadly not eliminate) hazard two:
Start teaching your kid the importance and value of working as soon as they are old enough to understand it and then encourage (or require - it wasn’t an ‘ if ’ but ‘ when ’ for me) them to start working part time while they’re still in high school. They will literally not have time to get sucked into the endless online stream of nonsense & earning their own money will matter to them.
I agree with you about Tumblr, but there are plenty of schools now where people who came of age on Tumblr are the professors and teaching assistants. I had so many teaching assistants who spouted Tumblr crap, and when I asked them directly, yes, they were Tumblr people.
Having a like-minded person who you could share a laugh with about the woke absurdities could be instrumental in staying sane in college. How does one find such a person, though?
Religious affiliated universities may also be better. I went to one. There was plenty of Regular College Stuff that went on there among the student body, there was plenty of religious and ethical questioning, but being beholden to people whose values aren’t mostly brand new to the past two decades keeps things grounded.
Yeah. Well, the house only goes up in value if you're lucky. Or, you might have the fortune to have purchased two different houses during two *different* housing bubbles, *and* gotten to sell after they'd popped.
I know it's generally good advice, but I'm just bitter. Sorry. :-\
I have worked in higher education for the last 20 years and this is by far THE most useful post for anyone thinking about going to college/ university. I just wish I was still on (academic) Twitter under my old handle so I could RT.
I read this with great eagerness, mostly to validate my own parenting choices. I went into the high school->college->career pipeline, and although I don't regret my life choices, I wanted my kids (now 21, 18, and 13) to be able to make their own choices. My job is not to force them into any particular path; my job is to put data points in front of them, let them decide, and support their decisions.
Once upon a time college was touted as a way out of poverty. The 1970s. You went to college, learned about different topics, lived with a variety of roommates, in dorms, or off campus housing and there was self segregation and under current of “what is next?” In my time we black and white students were pretty much on an even playing field. As The 1970s changed, I started asking hard questions of my college., once I get out of college how do I transfer this knowledge into a decent job? No one could answer that question. I stopped school for a while and worked in a department store. I worked a lot of retail jobs. I went to college to study business and really, it was a total fu*k up. I flunked out, I did not have enough math background to tackle the very basics of business classes. I was exhausted and I was a slow learner. Eventually I started working in banking, retail was replaced by telemarketing inbound and I learned about banking. I went back to college, studied communication and got my BS. BS in communication is a nothing degree so I went for my masters. The web was starting to emerge, interest rates were no longer 18%, I went the print direction, not web. BIG REGRET. I still asked counselors, professors how do I get a job in my field that will pay a living salary? Again crickets, no one had the answer and one professor on the radio swore that I could make 75-80k with the degree. No, just no. It was an illusion a trick, it had no basis in reality. While my degree and portfolio opened some doors so did my persistence. That and luck, really.
After what I went through, mistakes and all, if I were a kid today asking about college I would encourage a trade, a skill, apprenticeship, and learn and understand math. Math is money. I would strongly discourage, I MEAN STRONGLY discourage any college. I never even cracked 40K, while I am creative, everyone is creative to some extent. While some of the things I did actually made a class I was in gasp. (I really hit a couple of projects out of the park, gasps can be a good thing) I worked my entire life to pay for health insurance for me as I grow older. While I have done okay, what I see now for kids with no direction, mentors, help, and good foundation of family and basic knowledge is a strong NO to college.
Learn to cut hair, mend clothing, fix shoes, tailor clothes, figure out plumbing. There is so much out there that surpasses college in meaningful ways. Fixing cars, rehabbing a house, farming (viciously difficult) find small communities. You know the ones that are way out in the boonies, you can make your job, charge appropriately, get a name for yourself, and work independently. It is hard, but given what I have seen the past three years, no matter what you do, you are still on your own.
Great thoughts. I appreciate the reading list. I think a precocious reader could start on some of those materials in middle school. I started talking to my eldest about some of this stuff last year when he was in 2nd grade and some social justice topics came up at their otherwise non-woke school. I encourage people to start the conversation young. Kids can handle simplified versions of these concepts, and it’s possible to convey that it’s important without making it scary or overwhelming.