Love it when you talk about parasocial relationships, it was an idea you introduced me to and it is such an incredibly helpful lens for being healthy online.
This was another very interesting extension of that idea, the idea of social groups have parasocial relationships with each other. Good food for thought.
Thanks. It really helped me understand my bizarre Twitter experience and put it all in perspective. And after a bunch of Black History Month crap at work, plus social media observations, I think I finally found something that gives language to something I've noticed. I'm almost always surprised by what gets traction vs what doesn't, and rarely have a strong preference. I admit that this time I'm hoping for traction, because I'm eager to hear other people's thoughts on this idea--as many as possible. Fingers crossed, I guess. :-)
Mission accomplished, for me at least. I felt like I didn't 100% agree that the analogy fitted well and I'm still thinking about it. Which is great BTW, genuinely thought provoking and I'm wondering if having mostly parasocial relationships with other races is a more solid definition of what racism actually is.
That would fit, I think. And explain why after a long period of things getting better while pursuing "colorblindness" now things are getting worse as the pursuit of colorblindness itself is declared racist.
I remember watching the video with Anita Sarkeesian and she said, “Everything is racist and everything thing is sexist and you have to call it out all the time”
I knew little of the context except what was on Kotaku. I thought on the surface that statement was wrong. I mean “everything” is a bold claim. It reminds me of an Adam Carolla bit where he says he can complain about anything. My favorite one is handles on paper bags. I digress. But suppose AS is correct and “everything” is the worst, well then what’s the point? What can I do? Am I supposed to call it out to everyone all the time like she suggests? I got a tough time with getting along with others and now I’m supposed to strain the relationships I do have?
Also, I never hear of an end goal. What does society look like? The goal is to have racism eliminated thus no more need for anti-racism in our discourse? Or does it just continue on in perpetuity?
I know you have lost a lot of respect for him but Sammy had a lot of great points about this in a solo show he did shortly after the riots in the 2020.
I remember that episode. It gave me some hope he wasn't totally lost, ha ha.
The end goal is communism. That sounds hyperbolic and paranoid, but I think it's actually true. VP Harris said recently that equity was when "....we all end up in the same place." And this admin is strongly in favor of equity, NOT equality. Sigh.
Yes, Kendi’s been explicit with this with the Department of Antiracism he called for which would review literally every policy at every level of government.
If the stakes weren't so high, I could almost hope he succeeds just for the humor. Imagine the tortured discussion of whether soap dispensers in medical clinics being required to be 8 inches away from the sink is racist or anti-racist. LMAO.
I'm dead serious when I say that the DEI apparatchiks are the basic plan for Kendism. The idea is to have political cadres at every level of government who have to assent to every action.
I just realized that I’ve been consuming mostly quick/hot takes via social media rather than something long-form and well thought out. The difference being knee-jerk reactive vs the deliberate use of one’s brain. Society, and admittedly me, loves condensed versions and we are not better off for it. I know your writing will make me think, and I fear that that is slowly being trained out of us. So thanks for helping me strengthen some synapses this morning!
Most people are unaware of the history, which is why they can repeat that canard about Antifa with a straight face. (I presume some of them *are* aware and repeat it with a straight face because they're either true believers or sociopaths.) Antifa is anti- a very *specific* definition of "Fascism".
Antifa was founded in 1932 by the German Soviet agent Ernst Thälmann as "Antifaschistische Aktion" (antifascist action) to be the counterforce against the NSDAP's "Sturmabteilung" (storm division, a.k.a. the Brownshirts) for the explicitly Stalinist Kommunistische Partei Deutschland (German Communist Party).
The "fascism" referred to in their name is the same "fascism" as that in "die Antifaschistische Schutzwand" (the antifascist protection rampart) or, as it is far more commonly known, "The Berlin Wall". Yes, the Berlin Wall was (at least according to the official truth of the East Germans) to *protect* the people of East Germany from the "fascism" of western civilization.
"Fascism", in Soviet parlance, is "anything which is not Stalinist Communism". So yes, actually, by Antifa's definition, I am *absolutely* a "fascist". And so is almost every single other person on the planet.
Modern day Antifa still uses the same *logo* as they did 90 years ago. (The two flags logo, though they've mirrored it left for right. I imagine that a modern group calling themselves "The Storm Division" and using a sauwastika while claiming no link to the Nazi SA would not be well received, and would be laughed out of the room for attempting such a blatant lie.) Anyone who claims it isn't the same group is either brutally ignorant, or lying.
Antimatter is basically the same thing as regular matter except the polarity is reversed so that antiprotons have negative charge and anti-electrons (aka positrons) have positive charge. If the observable universe was made of antimatter it would probably be observably the same. I find this to be a good metaphor for antifa.
Another good analogy is antipopes. Antipopes were rival claimants to the Papacy. They still held a theological commitment to papal supremacy; they just wanted to hold that authority themselves rather than cede it to a rival.
Excellent analysis of the connections between parasocial relationships, Cluster B, and Anti-racism.
Do you think it’s accurate to say that this proliferation of parasocial relationships through social media is harming people’s ability to have real social relationships and friendships?
I’ve noticed that one of the things that irritates me the most about new people I meet (actually meeting them, not just interacting with them online) is the act of them informing me what I actually think about something or what motivated a particular decision I’ve made. It feels like this has become more common in the last 10 years. This seems very similar to the way you describe your interactions with the “non-personae” in parasocial relationships. Are people beginning to default to parasocial relationship strategies for all relationships?
Well, that has happened a few times to me, but I'm generally talking about something less malicious and with more plausibility. For example, newer colleagues assuming the reason that I prefer teaching with a particular method and style is because I'm afraid to take the risk of trying something new. Or someone I'm dating telling me how I feel about her based on action I took or didn't take. In these cases their "explanations" of why I do what I do isn't based on a white, male stereotype they have (at least not entirely), but it is based on a very limited number of interactions they've have with me. It's possible that they're correct about me, but given how well they know me, it's not very likely. Yet they seem quite confident in their pronouncements.
When I've been able to form successful relationships, the early stages always involved a lot more give-and-take. Asking questions to try to understand what someone thinks, why they think it, and what kinds of actions their thinking motivates. And even when you know someone well, guessing their thoughts always runs the risk of oversimplifying. Doing it to someone you're just getting to know is basically interacting with a fake version person you've created in your mind.
Maybe this is just a case of mental laziness that I find more irritating as I get older, but it was similar enough to what you describe that I wondered if there was any connection.
I think there may be, especially post Covid. Many people's parasocial relationships became their only relationships, or their most important ones. Those lines need to be hard and fast between real life and online. And they are less visible than ever.
That's a good point. These parasocial relationship habits were reinforced by the combination of lockdowns and the social pressure to group people into various good/bad binaries that COVID brought us.
They sound at least a little bit rude and presumptuous, happens in all spaces. Many just need a few more active inhibitory neurons on tongue movement 👅 so they can take time to think before talking. The word parasocial still contains the word "social" which implies a certain level of tact, respect, and self awareness- all qualities that seem to suffer because of bad habits promoted (not created by) social media and online engagement. It demands an additional skill set that is medium (email, Twitter, substack, phone, etc) and context dependant, but is hard to define well in the very "meta" parasocial space that Hollie and her peers inhabit.
Kind of ironic but it seems the (in at least the most unhealthy cases) non-persona person claims an ownership of the persona person. So, the white anti-racist person who worships her black gynecologist kinda claims a bit of ownership. Kinda like the crazy Catcher in the Rye fan owns John Lennon and ultimately his life.
Yep. I didn't include this, because this was already such a long essay, but the process of getting to know Heather, Bret, and Josh -- all of which started as parasocial relationships on my part -- was largely a process of letting go of what I thought I knew and that sense of "ownership" and actually getting to know them as people.
Holly you have a great group of friends! They are solidly based as far as I can tell from my limited "parasocial" engagement. It is comforting for many of "us" that some (you and your peers/friends and others) are honest, generous, tolerant, and talented enough to be able to walk the line and share as much and as effectively as you/ they do. I had not heard the parasocial concept framed as such previously, but I can only imagine how completely consuming and draining it can be, especially via Twitter. I am glad that my obligations to it are tiny because of my very limited level of visibilty. Still, just consuming the content can be exhausting. Not sure how people are able to shut off or get to the place that one must get to when the walls must go up to preserve yourself and your sanity. It helps to realize that you can't "fix" most broken people through this, though you can and do help many move ahead with their own sensemaking, demon wrestling, and human connection. We all do parasocial dances of our own, at comparatively, and thankfully vastly more limited scope. It is immensely powerful to make these connections, nurture them, and not damage/break them in the process. Glad to hear that you, Brett, Heather, and Josh (among many others) have not let any anyone break it for you, or for the rest of us as beneficiaries. Thanks to you all! Parasocial "hello" to each!
Love it when you talk about parasocial relationships, it was an idea you introduced me to and it is such an incredibly helpful lens for being healthy online.
This was another very interesting extension of that idea, the idea of social groups have parasocial relationships with each other. Good food for thought.
Thanks. It really helped me understand my bizarre Twitter experience and put it all in perspective. And after a bunch of Black History Month crap at work, plus social media observations, I think I finally found something that gives language to something I've noticed. I'm almost always surprised by what gets traction vs what doesn't, and rarely have a strong preference. I admit that this time I'm hoping for traction, because I'm eager to hear other people's thoughts on this idea--as many as possible. Fingers crossed, I guess. :-)
Mission accomplished, for me at least. I felt like I didn't 100% agree that the analogy fitted well and I'm still thinking about it. Which is great BTW, genuinely thought provoking and I'm wondering if having mostly parasocial relationships with other races is a more solid definition of what racism actually is.
That would fit, I think. And explain why after a long period of things getting better while pursuing "colorblindness" now things are getting worse as the pursuit of colorblindness itself is declared racist.
I remember watching the video with Anita Sarkeesian and she said, “Everything is racist and everything thing is sexist and you have to call it out all the time”
I knew little of the context except what was on Kotaku. I thought on the surface that statement was wrong. I mean “everything” is a bold claim. It reminds me of an Adam Carolla bit where he says he can complain about anything. My favorite one is handles on paper bags. I digress. But suppose AS is correct and “everything” is the worst, well then what’s the point? What can I do? Am I supposed to call it out to everyone all the time like she suggests? I got a tough time with getting along with others and now I’m supposed to strain the relationships I do have?
Also, I never hear of an end goal. What does society look like? The goal is to have racism eliminated thus no more need for anti-racism in our discourse? Or does it just continue on in perpetuity?
I know you have lost a lot of respect for him but Sammy had a lot of great points about this in a solo show he did shortly after the riots in the 2020.
Nice write up Holly.
I remember that episode. It gave me some hope he wasn't totally lost, ha ha.
The end goal is communism. That sounds hyperbolic and paranoid, but I think it's actually true. VP Harris said recently that equity was when "....we all end up in the same place." And this admin is strongly in favor of equity, NOT equality. Sigh.
Yes, Kendi’s been explicit with this with the Department of Antiracism he called for which would review literally every policy at every level of government.
If the stakes weren't so high, I could almost hope he succeeds just for the humor. Imagine the tortured discussion of whether soap dispensers in medical clinics being required to be 8 inches away from the sink is racist or anti-racist. LMAO.
I'm dead serious when I say that the DEI apparatchiks are the basic plan for Kendism. The idea is to have political cadres at every level of government who have to assent to every action.
Really brilliant. Thank you.
Thank you, and thanks for reading!
I just realized that I’ve been consuming mostly quick/hot takes via social media rather than something long-form and well thought out. The difference being knee-jerk reactive vs the deliberate use of one’s brain. Society, and admittedly me, loves condensed versions and we are not better off for it. I know your writing will make me think, and I fear that that is slowly being trained out of us. So thanks for helping me strengthen some synapses this morning!
Most people are unaware of the history, which is why they can repeat that canard about Antifa with a straight face. (I presume some of them *are* aware and repeat it with a straight face because they're either true believers or sociopaths.) Antifa is anti- a very *specific* definition of "Fascism".
Antifa was founded in 1932 by the German Soviet agent Ernst Thälmann as "Antifaschistische Aktion" (antifascist action) to be the counterforce against the NSDAP's "Sturmabteilung" (storm division, a.k.a. the Brownshirts) for the explicitly Stalinist Kommunistische Partei Deutschland (German Communist Party).
The "fascism" referred to in their name is the same "fascism" as that in "die Antifaschistische Schutzwand" (the antifascist protection rampart) or, as it is far more commonly known, "The Berlin Wall". Yes, the Berlin Wall was (at least according to the official truth of the East Germans) to *protect* the people of East Germany from the "fascism" of western civilization.
"Fascism", in Soviet parlance, is "anything which is not Stalinist Communism". So yes, actually, by Antifa's definition, I am *absolutely* a "fascist". And so is almost every single other person on the planet.
Modern day Antifa still uses the same *logo* as they did 90 years ago. (The two flags logo, though they've mirrored it left for right. I imagine that a modern group calling themselves "The Storm Division" and using a sauwastika while claiming no link to the Nazi SA would not be well received, and would be laughed out of the room for attempting such a blatant lie.) Anyone who claims it isn't the same group is either brutally ignorant, or lying.
Antimatter is basically the same thing as regular matter except the polarity is reversed so that antiprotons have negative charge and anti-electrons (aka positrons) have positive charge. If the observable universe was made of antimatter it would probably be observably the same. I find this to be a good metaphor for antifa.
Another good analogy is antipopes. Antipopes were rival claimants to the Papacy. They still held a theological commitment to papal supremacy; they just wanted to hold that authority themselves rather than cede it to a rival.
Which circles us back around nicely to the concept of "antiracists"...
Excellent analysis of the connections between parasocial relationships, Cluster B, and Anti-racism.
Do you think it’s accurate to say that this proliferation of parasocial relationships through social media is harming people’s ability to have real social relationships and friendships?
I’ve noticed that one of the things that irritates me the most about new people I meet (actually meeting them, not just interacting with them online) is the act of them informing me what I actually think about something or what motivated a particular decision I’ve made. It feels like this has become more common in the last 10 years. This seems very similar to the way you describe your interactions with the “non-personae” in parasocial relationships. Are people beginning to default to parasocial relationship strategies for all relationships?
Are you having people explain your thoughts and motivations to you in the context of just assuming they know what a white dude thinks?
Well, that has happened a few times to me, but I'm generally talking about something less malicious and with more plausibility. For example, newer colleagues assuming the reason that I prefer teaching with a particular method and style is because I'm afraid to take the risk of trying something new. Or someone I'm dating telling me how I feel about her based on action I took or didn't take. In these cases their "explanations" of why I do what I do isn't based on a white, male stereotype they have (at least not entirely), but it is based on a very limited number of interactions they've have with me. It's possible that they're correct about me, but given how well they know me, it's not very likely. Yet they seem quite confident in their pronouncements.
When I've been able to form successful relationships, the early stages always involved a lot more give-and-take. Asking questions to try to understand what someone thinks, why they think it, and what kinds of actions their thinking motivates. And even when you know someone well, guessing their thoughts always runs the risk of oversimplifying. Doing it to someone you're just getting to know is basically interacting with a fake version person you've created in your mind.
Maybe this is just a case of mental laziness that I find more irritating as I get older, but it was similar enough to what you describe that I wondered if there was any connection.
I think there may be, especially post Covid. Many people's parasocial relationships became their only relationships, or their most important ones. Those lines need to be hard and fast between real life and online. And they are less visible than ever.
That's a good point. These parasocial relationship habits were reinforced by the combination of lockdowns and the social pressure to group people into various good/bad binaries that COVID brought us.
They sound at least a little bit rude and presumptuous, happens in all spaces. Many just need a few more active inhibitory neurons on tongue movement 👅 so they can take time to think before talking. The word parasocial still contains the word "social" which implies a certain level of tact, respect, and self awareness- all qualities that seem to suffer because of bad habits promoted (not created by) social media and online engagement. It demands an additional skill set that is medium (email, Twitter, substack, phone, etc) and context dependant, but is hard to define well in the very "meta" parasocial space that Hollie and her peers inhabit.
Related: https://twitter.com/jessesingal/status/1632165517707419650?s=61&t=UuNAqt03CTUlMiMLmInFWA
Kind of ironic but it seems the (in at least the most unhealthy cases) non-persona person claims an ownership of the persona person. So, the white anti-racist person who worships her black gynecologist kinda claims a bit of ownership. Kinda like the crazy Catcher in the Rye fan owns John Lennon and ultimately his life.
Song for the day The Kinks, Starstruck https://youtube.com/watch?v=HaDoVAaqHaE&feature=shares
Yep. I didn't include this, because this was already such a long essay, but the process of getting to know Heather, Bret, and Josh -- all of which started as parasocial relationships on my part -- was largely a process of letting go of what I thought I knew and that sense of "ownership" and actually getting to know them as people.
Holly you have a great group of friends! They are solidly based as far as I can tell from my limited "parasocial" engagement. It is comforting for many of "us" that some (you and your peers/friends and others) are honest, generous, tolerant, and talented enough to be able to walk the line and share as much and as effectively as you/ they do. I had not heard the parasocial concept framed as such previously, but I can only imagine how completely consuming and draining it can be, especially via Twitter. I am glad that my obligations to it are tiny because of my very limited level of visibilty. Still, just consuming the content can be exhausting. Not sure how people are able to shut off or get to the place that one must get to when the walls must go up to preserve yourself and your sanity. It helps to realize that you can't "fix" most broken people through this, though you can and do help many move ahead with their own sensemaking, demon wrestling, and human connection. We all do parasocial dances of our own, at comparatively, and thankfully vastly more limited scope. It is immensely powerful to make these connections, nurture them, and not damage/break them in the process. Glad to hear that you, Brett, Heather, and Josh (among many others) have not let any anyone break it for you, or for the rest of us as beneficiaries. Thanks to you all! Parasocial "hello" to each!