There have been ASL interpreters on TV for decades. Who have they ever bothered by their presence? It has always made sense that they are there and they should always continue to be there. When my state's moron governor does her press conferences she always has an ASL person with her signing and emoting, but it never occurred to me that it could be a woke flex. Your explanation about how context matters really clears up the emoting the ASL person does.
There was that one case a few years back... in Africa, was it? They had an official press conference about something and they had some sign-language interpreter who was REALLY INTO IT. And then it came out that he didn't actually know sign language and was basically just dancing for the camera. I don't know if it's offensive, but the whole thing made me laugh.
Yep. This is part of what makes signing fun. For example, if discussing a third party who isn’t there, signers do something called “referential indexing”. You indicate a physical space that stands in for that person and you point at that space as a pronoun reference for him/her. If you like this person vs if you despise them, the facial expressions, type of pointing, etc., are very different. And it’s hella fun.
Thank you Holly! I think this is both a vital service and one that should be easily available. I also think it is an example of the true meaning of equity, which in my personal experience is the removal of barriers so everyone has the same opportunity to thrive. It is then of course there responsibility of the individual whether they make use of the attempt to remove the barrier. And, as you say, there may be more than one way to do so depending on each individual's circumstances.
Ha! I always wondered why sign language interpreters make such extreme and often rather unpleasant expressions while they are signing. I admit to being annoyed by it, due to my ignorance of the reason for it. As so often happens, I learned something important by reading your substack. Thanks!
Great insights and explanations. I was not aware of the language differences between English and ASL until I started reading some of your posts as I remember you mentioning this before. Fascinating.
I wholeheartedly agree that closed captions are often terrible, sometimes useless and are not sufficient for either deaf or Deaf people. My wife is very hard of hearing, even with hearing aids, so we have CC enabled by default, and experience this situation daily. The differences are bewildering, annoying and sometimes hilarious (my own hearing loss and tinnitus make things occasionally difficult, but not bad). Perhaps advances in AI and speech recognition will help some, but I decline to bet on that.
One thing that has always bothered me is if anyone bothers to brief the ASL interpreter on the speech beforehand. Before I deployed to Afghanistan, one of the things we were trained to do was to brief our interpreters, and if time permitted to rehearse with them, before any big event. It appears to me that this does not happen often enough, as the interpreters sometimes look surprised or bewildered by speeches and sometimes have a hard time keeping up. Any interpreter is a communications tool and you have to know how to utilize them effectively.
Absolutely and I had a number of discussions with my interpreters regarding that issue. Jargon does not always make communications easier and often, quite the opposite.
I'm kind of dumbfounded that there are people who actually think ASL interpreters are "wokeness?" That's just ridiculous. There have been ASL interpreters on TV for years and years. I remember when we lived in South Carolina thirty years ago and attended a very conservative church, they not only had an ASL interpreter but also had a signing choir that performed ASL version of hymns. There's nothing woke about making things accessible to the deaf.
Americans are people of extremes. We pendulum-swing in absolutely absurd ways. Our national character is that of a thirteen-year-old whose parents are on vacation but left unlimited cash, guns, and drugs, pretty much. Maybe that’s to be expected of such a young nation, but still, it’s not great.
Actually this article is a perfect example of how wokeness hurts people who are genuinely needy in some way. Allowing deaf people to fully participate is precisely what inclusion & diversity is (was) meant to be until it became a progressive grift. Now you have cynicism built up to the point a valuable service is questioned.
Thank you Holly! Beautifully expressed and articulated. Who could ever really object to the interpreters? Let's face it - maybe there is some "wokeness" around - but ASL is certainly not among it! Now if I ever hear a moronic comment about the onscreen interpreter, I'll have some "ammunition (information)" as a different perspective.
7:30 on a too busy Thursday morning and I sit down to read this even though I feel that I really don't have the time, but you continually prove to be worth the investment.
There is value even in families with no hearing loss to learn at least some sign language. My daughter-in-law signed with her children before they became verbal; they were able to read and respond with some signs before they could talk. I understand that this can be used as a basis for ASL later.
Thank you so much for this Holly. I was not aware of the ways in which ASL is very different from English grammar, but I knew it must be As to those who fear it is a sign of wokeness, that's a reasonable guess from ignorance of what's being signed and the way our institutions have all been corrupted in the name of "inclusiveness", but if they do nothing to investigate the assertion's truth or falsity, it's just idle fear-mongering. My only worry has been whether the interpreters are correctly interpreting or just making stuff up. If the Deaf community has no way to validate what an interpreter is signing without consulting a transcript, a step which folks are unlikely to take, they're stuck with whatever the interpreter signs. (And God help the interpreter who has to sign the babble that frequently comes out of Fraud In Chief of the US' (FICUS) mouth.
I've always wanted to learn ASL to remedy my ignorance, but have been too lazy. Can you recommend a good way to go about learning it, especially good online resources? I have no way of vetting them.
There’s a metric ton of options. The main thing is to try to get something by a native signer if at all possible. I really like lifeprint’s setup, lessons, and organization, even though the website is kind of ugly. Bill is a great teacher. https://www.lifeprint.com/
As to your question about interpreters, there is a certification process for interpreters that is administered by Registry of Interpreters for the Deaf. I believe Texas has separate certification process, but not certain on that. Agencies usually prefer to hire interpreters who have been certified. In addition, there is a code of ethics that covers your concern, and a reporting process.
Yes. My wife is Deaf and growing up her mom’s side took the time to learn ASL, her dad finger spelled and the rest of his side did rudimentary signs or hoped she could read lips.
She can’t even do full ASL. It’s a blend of home signs, Signed English/SEE which she absolutely hated in school.
There’s a of three different interpreters: one is a family member who signs, then a certified interpreter, and then a Certified Deaf interpreter who was being fed by another interpreter I think.
The differences was staggering. I’ll try to find it.
"In ASL...meaning is conveyed through context, facial expressions, and other visual/tone elements...The signer’s context and expressions clarify the nuances. In ASL, words alone do not carry the same weight as in English."
I am a Renaissance Faire performer, and one of the faires I work has an ASL weekend every season. As you may know, Ren Faire stage humor tends to be bawdy, and there is also typically a lot of quick-witted word play based on Shakespeare, Marlowe, and other Tudor era classic literature references. Some of the ASL signers that work that weekend have fan followings that rival those of the most popular acts -- they are performers in their own right and many of them combine near-gymnastic physical grace and fluidity with drop dead hilarious facial expressions and mannerisms that perfectly mirror the material they are translating. They're a joy to watch even though I don't know ASL even a little bit.
There have been ASL interpreters on TV for decades. Who have they ever bothered by their presence? It has always made sense that they are there and they should always continue to be there. When my state's moron governor does her press conferences she always has an ASL person with her signing and emoting, but it never occurred to me that it could be a woke flex. Your explanation about how context matters really clears up the emoting the ASL person does.
There was that one case a few years back... in Africa, was it? They had an official press conference about something and they had some sign-language interpreter who was REALLY INTO IT. And then it came out that he didn't actually know sign language and was basically just dancing for the camera. I don't know if it's offensive, but the whole thing made me laugh.
Yep. This is part of what makes signing fun. For example, if discussing a third party who isn’t there, signers do something called “referential indexing”. You indicate a physical space that stands in for that person and you point at that space as a pronoun reference for him/her. If you like this person vs if you despise them, the facial expressions, type of pointing, etc., are very different. And it’s hella fun.
I watch out for these ... lol
Bravo! Just ... bravo! I'll be sharing this the heck everywhere I can.
Thank you Holly! I think this is both a vital service and one that should be easily available. I also think it is an example of the true meaning of equity, which in my personal experience is the removal of barriers so everyone has the same opportunity to thrive. It is then of course there responsibility of the individual whether they make use of the attempt to remove the barrier. And, as you say, there may be more than one way to do so depending on each individual's circumstances.
Ha! I always wondered why sign language interpreters make such extreme and often rather unpleasant expressions while they are signing. I admit to being annoyed by it, due to my ignorance of the reason for it. As so often happens, I learned something important by reading your substack. Thanks!
Hooray! Happy to help!
Great insights and explanations. I was not aware of the language differences between English and ASL until I started reading some of your posts as I remember you mentioning this before. Fascinating.
I wholeheartedly agree that closed captions are often terrible, sometimes useless and are not sufficient for either deaf or Deaf people. My wife is very hard of hearing, even with hearing aids, so we have CC enabled by default, and experience this situation daily. The differences are bewildering, annoying and sometimes hilarious (my own hearing loss and tinnitus make things occasionally difficult, but not bad). Perhaps advances in AI and speech recognition will help some, but I decline to bet on that.
One thing that has always bothered me is if anyone bothers to brief the ASL interpreter on the speech beforehand. Before I deployed to Afghanistan, one of the things we were trained to do was to brief our interpreters, and if time permitted to rehearse with them, before any big event. It appears to me that this does not happen often enough, as the interpreters sometimes look surprised or bewildered by speeches and sometimes have a hard time keeping up. Any interpreter is a communications tool and you have to know how to utilize them effectively.
Yes, especially if there are terminology the speaker likes to use that the interpreter may not be familiar with.
Absolutely and I had a number of discussions with my interpreters regarding that issue. Jargon does not always make communications easier and often, quite the opposite.
Good article. I learned a lot. Esp enjoyed the part about the dad that learned to sign and made everyone cry. Very touching.
Was the signer at Mandela's memorial a huge controversy in the deaf community?
I'm kind of dumbfounded that there are people who actually think ASL interpreters are "wokeness?" That's just ridiculous. There have been ASL interpreters on TV for years and years. I remember when we lived in South Carolina thirty years ago and attended a very conservative church, they not only had an ASL interpreter but also had a signing choir that performed ASL version of hymns. There's nothing woke about making things accessible to the deaf.
Americans are people of extremes. We pendulum-swing in absolutely absurd ways. Our national character is that of a thirteen-year-old whose parents are on vacation but left unlimited cash, guns, and drugs, pretty much. Maybe that’s to be expected of such a young nation, but still, it’s not great.
"Our national character is that of a thirteen-year-old whose parents are on vacation but left unlimited cash, guns, and drugs, pretty much."
This is perfect. Reminds me of Hunter S. Thompson and the "Send Lawyers, Guns, and Money" quote.
https://coffeeordie.com/hunter-s-thompson-guns
Actually this article is a perfect example of how wokeness hurts people who are genuinely needy in some way. Allowing deaf people to fully participate is precisely what inclusion & diversity is (was) meant to be until it became a progressive grift. Now you have cynicism built up to the point a valuable service is questioned.
Thank you Holly! Beautifully expressed and articulated. Who could ever really object to the interpreters? Let's face it - maybe there is some "wokeness" around - but ASL is certainly not among it! Now if I ever hear a moronic comment about the onscreen interpreter, I'll have some "ammunition (information)" as a different perspective.
Thank you! And thank you for reading.
Thank you for the insights.
7:30 on a too busy Thursday morning and I sit down to read this even though I feel that I really don't have the time, but you continually prove to be worth the investment.
Your ending left my eyes welling.
Thank you once again for sharing.
There is value even in families with no hearing loss to learn at least some sign language. My daughter-in-law signed with her children before they became verbal; they were able to read and respond with some signs before they could talk. I understand that this can be used as a basis for ASL later.
https://www.thebump.com/a/how-to-teach-baby-sign-language
Thank you so much for this Holly. I was not aware of the ways in which ASL is very different from English grammar, but I knew it must be As to those who fear it is a sign of wokeness, that's a reasonable guess from ignorance of what's being signed and the way our institutions have all been corrupted in the name of "inclusiveness", but if they do nothing to investigate the assertion's truth or falsity, it's just idle fear-mongering. My only worry has been whether the interpreters are correctly interpreting or just making stuff up. If the Deaf community has no way to validate what an interpreter is signing without consulting a transcript, a step which folks are unlikely to take, they're stuck with whatever the interpreter signs. (And God help the interpreter who has to sign the babble that frequently comes out of Fraud In Chief of the US' (FICUS) mouth.
I've always wanted to learn ASL to remedy my ignorance, but have been too lazy. Can you recommend a good way to go about learning it, especially good online resources? I have no way of vetting them.
There’s a metric ton of options. The main thing is to try to get something by a native signer if at all possible. I really like lifeprint’s setup, lessons, and organization, even though the website is kind of ugly. Bill is a great teacher. https://www.lifeprint.com/
Very helpful. Thanks!
As to your question about interpreters, there is a certification process for interpreters that is administered by Registry of Interpreters for the Deaf. I believe Texas has separate certification process, but not certain on that. Agencies usually prefer to hire interpreters who have been certified. In addition, there is a code of ethics that covers your concern, and a reporting process.
Here's the website for RID: https://rid.org
Yes. My wife is Deaf and growing up her mom’s side took the time to learn ASL, her dad finger spelled and the rest of his side did rudimentary signs or hoped she could read lips.
She can’t even do full ASL. It’s a blend of home signs, Signed English/SEE which she absolutely hated in school.
There’s a of three different interpreters: one is a family member who signs, then a certified interpreter, and then a Certified Deaf interpreter who was being fed by another interpreter I think.
The differences was staggering. I’ll try to find it.
Yeah. I get why deaf kids *despise* SEE but parents who go that route are doing an infinitely better job than parents who don't sign at all.
Yeah. It’s a recurring peeve of mine that my family still hasn’t learned even the ABCs and we’ve been married for 13 years.
C’mon y’all, she’s clearly sticking around.
"In ASL...meaning is conveyed through context, facial expressions, and other visual/tone elements...The signer’s context and expressions clarify the nuances. In ASL, words alone do not carry the same weight as in English."
I am a Renaissance Faire performer, and one of the faires I work has an ASL weekend every season. As you may know, Ren Faire stage humor tends to be bawdy, and there is also typically a lot of quick-witted word play based on Shakespeare, Marlowe, and other Tudor era classic literature references. Some of the ASL signers that work that weekend have fan followings that rival those of the most popular acts -- they are performers in their own right and many of them combine near-gymnastic physical grace and fluidity with drop dead hilarious facial expressions and mannerisms that perfectly mirror the material they are translating. They're a joy to watch even though I don't know ASL even a little bit.
Wordplaying ... check out Signplaying. He. is. AWESOME. He has an IG and a FB account where you can see clips.
https://signplaying.thinkific.com
Found it!
https://youtu.be/TfgnbOEkgS8?si=_FG5fyxYo3DICkFg
This essay made me tear up. Never read a better explanation of this.