GENERAL COMMENT: I’m a lot more tolerant here than I was on Twitter, where the sheer volume of input coming at me constantly required me to block and mute liberally. But my mind is made up, and if you aren’t someone I am legit close to—someone who has been in my home and/or someone who has my explicit permission to call me out when you see the need—you do not possess the power, authority, or influence to change my mind on this one. Bear that in mind when you start commenting.
> New provisions will ensure that balances don’t grow and grow and grow, making it impossible for low earners to ever see the light at the end of the tunnel. This is good; there are many people who’ve paid on time for decades and still aren’t out of debt.
I get that that has to suck for them, and there are likely people who ended up in such a situation without actually bearing *much* culpability for it, but these *are* notionally adults who made a decision about how much debt to incur in school and what topics to study. So I have somewhat reduced sympathy for them.
The one thing that the feds could have done that I would have wholeheartedly supported (my toss away comment about raking it back from the colleges on the last post aside) would be to declare student loans as something dischargable in bankruptcy.
I think *that* would solve a lot of problems in higher education. Mostly because lending institutions (assuming anyone other than the fedgov actually *makes* student loans any longer) would have an incentive to ponder whether giving someone a quarter million dollars for a degree in art history was actually likely to be a good risk.
Being a paid subscriber due to ur Student Loan Forgiveness Position, 'n other reasons. Confused how my pymt method appeared w/o my providing it. Is that some kinda Substack Account (which I don't recall signing up for) thing?
Of all the student loan borrowers of which I am aware, your debt is the FIRST I would choose to forgive, if I were rank ordering borrowers by worthiness. You spent those dollars earning a marketable skill that improved your earning power - and not as a leisure class diversion. If a student is spending his own or his family's money, the young person should be free to study whatever (s)he wants. But if the student is borrowing the money, the student has an obligation to those who are lending the money to be prudent with it.
Aug 27, 2022·edited Aug 27, 2022Liked by Holly MathNerd
Holly, they can go back through financial aid databases and know everything you ever received--I actually did a huge modeling study using this in Texas and linking higher ed to high school preparation for all students who applied for financial aid.
I think you are making the right decision. I decided to forgo a formal education when I realized a) how corrupt the universities are and b) how little original source material was actually read in the programs I wanted to enter. So I never had to deal with student loans. That being said, I think you can draw a parallel with the hand outs the Canadian and American governments dished out during the pandemic. They were so desperate to hand out money that most of my friends who were working still managed to get the hand outs, on top of their wages. Everyone took the money whether they met the criteria or not. I refused out of principle, knowing someone would have to foot the bill. Surprise, surprise, you shut down the entire economy, and throw money at every Canadian, and you double national debt in under two years paired with inflation that is far higher than reported. We who never dipped into those funds are now equally fiscally responsible for paying that back. It's worse with the student loans in that to qualify for relief you need to be under an income that is three times that of the average earner in the US; you're forcing dishwashers and carpenters to bail out gender studies majors. It's wrong. It's scandalous. And it's stupid! Every American will pay, and the poorest will suffer the most. I tip my hat to you.
(Banned)Aug 27, 2022·edited Aug 27, 2022Liked by Holly MathNerd
I can relate to this. I am in a similar situation of active vs passive capitulation.
I also grew up in a dysfunctional, toxic family full of inter-generational trauma. I went through many years of therapy myself, healed my PTSD and anxiety disorder immensely, met a healthy man, married, and now am raising my children in a very different environment. I became a better, much less reactive person, and my relationships improved. Except my relationship with my abusive mother. (Father died when I was young and brother is.. not sure.. probably in jail.) My relationship with my mother got worse. Something to do with healing and rejecting my scapegoat role and setting healthy boundries. That doesn't go over well with damaged people who view realtionships as a means of control and keeping false narratives alive for psychic self-preservation, instead of loving ways of understanding oneself and others.
When my father died he left, quite unexpectely to us, a TON of money to my mother in the form of multiple life insurance policies we never knew he even had. She inherited millions, including some property in California we didn't know his grandfather had left him. Of course, she sent me a letter from her lawyer stating I was disinherited, unless I "learn to be a less hostile and more grateful daughter". I live several states away and I don't know how many people have told me to get along and go along for the money. (We're talking about 1 to 1.5 million here.) We won't even see her that often and if she calls every day who cares, right? Wrong.
I won't do it. How do I value myself and learn that I matter if I capitulate? How do I maintain healthy self esteem and not fall into unhealthy codependency and self harm again by letting her twisted narrative be reality to me.. for money? It's not about holding a grudge. I don't hate her. I forgive her for all of her hurt and abuse, but I will not have a relationship with her because forgiveness does not mean it was OK. She has not changed. She is the same toxic person. She cannot buy the love she destroyed.
However (and this is HIGHLY unlikely) if she dies and somehow the disinheritance was just a threat and the money ends up coming to me, I won't refuse it. So yeah, if the money comes somehow, OK, but I understand how hard fought respect is to someone who was never given it and allowing yourself to be bought is one of the least respectful things you can do. Cheers to you.
HMN, I just feel uncomfortable not knowing how my CC info was already "on file" when I don't know how it got there. FYI, you offered my G'daughter advice on math prep for college. She is now enrolled and attending in pursuit of a BS Electrical Engineering degree.
I think you're making the right choice. I'm not going to look down on anyone who chooses to take the money, but I really admire the fact that you value your integrity far above money. I'm also glad that you're in a good position now where paying off your loan is not too much of a financial hardship. I think that even if it was a hardship you would still put your integrity first, but I'm glad you're not going to have to skip meals to live up to your values. I've followed you for several years (since you were a poor struggling college student), and it makes me happy to see you thriving now and achieving your goals.
Technical question: will awardees be responsible for the taxes to be paid on the $10K or $20K? That could be another hit on people struggling to repay, and that money would be due in 2023 (if it's applied in 2022).
On the constitutionality of the move: I've been eavesdropping on some lawyer-type chat and the answer is 'oh hell no'. 14th Amendment, straight shot. And in the same breath they all want the government out of the college loan business.
I was actually thinking about you when your govt announced this (I’m an Aussie observer). Having followed you for a couple of years an reading about your commitment and sacrifices to deal with the debt, I was wondering what your take on it would be - I guessed right.
While the feeling of breathing space in accepting a freebie seems great, it also feels like the discipline you have exercised to deal with it yourself would be taken from you, so that “they” can say you couldn’t do it without them. Your refusal to give them that satisfaction is to be commended.
PS. I also understand the ‘if it’s there…’ decision.
GENERAL COMMENT: I’m a lot more tolerant here than I was on Twitter, where the sheer volume of input coming at me constantly required me to block and mute liberally. But my mind is made up, and if you aren’t someone I am legit close to—someone who has been in my home and/or someone who has my explicit permission to call me out when you see the need—you do not possess the power, authority, or influence to change my mind on this one. Bear that in mind when you start commenting.
> New provisions will ensure that balances don’t grow and grow and grow, making it impossible for low earners to ever see the light at the end of the tunnel. This is good; there are many people who’ve paid on time for decades and still aren’t out of debt.
I get that that has to suck for them, and there are likely people who ended up in such a situation without actually bearing *much* culpability for it, but these *are* notionally adults who made a decision about how much debt to incur in school and what topics to study. So I have somewhat reduced sympathy for them.
The one thing that the feds could have done that I would have wholeheartedly supported (my toss away comment about raking it back from the colleges on the last post aside) would be to declare student loans as something dischargable in bankruptcy.
I think *that* would solve a lot of problems in higher education. Mostly because lending institutions (assuming anyone other than the fedgov actually *makes* student loans any longer) would have an incentive to ponder whether giving someone a quarter million dollars for a degree in art history was actually likely to be a good risk.
Being a paid subscriber due to ur Student Loan Forgiveness Position, 'n other reasons. Confused how my pymt method appeared w/o my providing it. Is that some kinda Substack Account (which I don't recall signing up for) thing?
Of all the student loan borrowers of which I am aware, your debt is the FIRST I would choose to forgive, if I were rank ordering borrowers by worthiness. You spent those dollars earning a marketable skill that improved your earning power - and not as a leisure class diversion. If a student is spending his own or his family's money, the young person should be free to study whatever (s)he wants. But if the student is borrowing the money, the student has an obligation to those who are lending the money to be prudent with it.
Holly, they can go back through financial aid databases and know everything you ever received--I actually did a huge modeling study using this in Texas and linking higher ed to high school preparation for all students who applied for financial aid.
I think you are making the right decision. I decided to forgo a formal education when I realized a) how corrupt the universities are and b) how little original source material was actually read in the programs I wanted to enter. So I never had to deal with student loans. That being said, I think you can draw a parallel with the hand outs the Canadian and American governments dished out during the pandemic. They were so desperate to hand out money that most of my friends who were working still managed to get the hand outs, on top of their wages. Everyone took the money whether they met the criteria or not. I refused out of principle, knowing someone would have to foot the bill. Surprise, surprise, you shut down the entire economy, and throw money at every Canadian, and you double national debt in under two years paired with inflation that is far higher than reported. We who never dipped into those funds are now equally fiscally responsible for paying that back. It's worse with the student loans in that to qualify for relief you need to be under an income that is three times that of the average earner in the US; you're forcing dishwashers and carpenters to bail out gender studies majors. It's wrong. It's scandalous. And it's stupid! Every American will pay, and the poorest will suffer the most. I tip my hat to you.
I can relate to this. I am in a similar situation of active vs passive capitulation.
I also grew up in a dysfunctional, toxic family full of inter-generational trauma. I went through many years of therapy myself, healed my PTSD and anxiety disorder immensely, met a healthy man, married, and now am raising my children in a very different environment. I became a better, much less reactive person, and my relationships improved. Except my relationship with my abusive mother. (Father died when I was young and brother is.. not sure.. probably in jail.) My relationship with my mother got worse. Something to do with healing and rejecting my scapegoat role and setting healthy boundries. That doesn't go over well with damaged people who view realtionships as a means of control and keeping false narratives alive for psychic self-preservation, instead of loving ways of understanding oneself and others.
When my father died he left, quite unexpectely to us, a TON of money to my mother in the form of multiple life insurance policies we never knew he even had. She inherited millions, including some property in California we didn't know his grandfather had left him. Of course, she sent me a letter from her lawyer stating I was disinherited, unless I "learn to be a less hostile and more grateful daughter". I live several states away and I don't know how many people have told me to get along and go along for the money. (We're talking about 1 to 1.5 million here.) We won't even see her that often and if she calls every day who cares, right? Wrong.
I won't do it. How do I value myself and learn that I matter if I capitulate? How do I maintain healthy self esteem and not fall into unhealthy codependency and self harm again by letting her twisted narrative be reality to me.. for money? It's not about holding a grudge. I don't hate her. I forgive her for all of her hurt and abuse, but I will not have a relationship with her because forgiveness does not mean it was OK. She has not changed. She is the same toxic person. She cannot buy the love she destroyed.
However (and this is HIGHLY unlikely) if she dies and somehow the disinheritance was just a threat and the money ends up coming to me, I won't refuse it. So yeah, if the money comes somehow, OK, but I understand how hard fought respect is to someone who was never given it and allowing yourself to be bought is one of the least respectful things you can do. Cheers to you.
HMN, I just feel uncomfortable not knowing how my CC info was already "on file" when I don't know how it got there. FYI, you offered my G'daughter advice on math prep for college. She is now enrolled and attending in pursuit of a BS Electrical Engineering degree.
Thank you!
My sources advise that Stripe is "Iffy." Ouch.
I think you're making the right choice. I'm not going to look down on anyone who chooses to take the money, but I really admire the fact that you value your integrity far above money. I'm also glad that you're in a good position now where paying off your loan is not too much of a financial hardship. I think that even if it was a hardship you would still put your integrity first, but I'm glad you're not going to have to skip meals to live up to your values. I've followed you for several years (since you were a poor struggling college student), and it makes me happy to see you thriving now and achieving your goals.
Technical question: will awardees be responsible for the taxes to be paid on the $10K or $20K? That could be another hit on people struggling to repay, and that money would be due in 2023 (if it's applied in 2022).
On the constitutionality of the move: I've been eavesdropping on some lawyer-type chat and the answer is 'oh hell no'. 14th Amendment, straight shot. And in the same breath they all want the government out of the college loan business.
Great article, thank you Holly.
I was actually thinking about you when your govt announced this (I’m an Aussie observer). Having followed you for a couple of years an reading about your commitment and sacrifices to deal with the debt, I was wondering what your take on it would be - I guessed right.
While the feeling of breathing space in accepting a freebie seems great, it also feels like the discipline you have exercised to deal with it yourself would be taken from you, so that “they” can say you couldn’t do it without them. Your refusal to give them that satisfaction is to be commended.
PS. I also understand the ‘if it’s there…’ decision.
My already high esteem for you just went ballistic. Doing the right thing is never a bad thing.
My goodness, Holly! You are one hell of an impressive young woman. I greatly admire your honesty, courage, and integrity.